Reclaiming Modern Masculinity: How High-Performing Men Are Healing in Secret | Pat Smith

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I think the more it becomes normalized, and the more you initiate those conversations with your friends of "Hey, how's it going, man? Oh, it's good, but how's it really going? That alone can be transformative, and and get to realize like it's okay to have those conversations. The challenge then becomes that I feel that the notion and the story that a lot of guys have is that if I'm sad or if I show emotion, that could be a sign of weakness. But the truth is, if you're not able to access any of your emotions, you're actually at a disadvantage than most people in the world. But

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the moment that you can access them, understand them, and then be the person that can maneuver through them. That actually is really what I would consider true strength, and there's a lot of resilience in that.

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Amy Lynn Durham: Hey, it's Amy. Welcome to Create Magic at Work, where we cast visions for a future of work where business decisions ripple outward to our teams, our communities, the planet, and humanity as a whole. If you're ready to edge walk instead of sleepwalk through your leadership, you're in the right place. So let's start making magic at work. Welcome back to Create Magic at Work. Today I am sitting down with Pat Smith. Pat Smith is a men's high performance coach who helps men become wildly successful professionally without losing themselves in the process. Over the past four

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years, he's coached Fortune 500 executives, pro athletes, celebrity actors, business owners, top sales professionals, and men in many other leadership roles. His work is shaped by his background in corporate sales with Fortune 1,000 companies, along with his continued education under Dr. Joe Dispenza during his time as a corporate trainer for neuro change solutions. Pat, thanks for being here with us today.

Pat Smith: 00:01:56

Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited about our conversation.

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Amy Lynn Durham: Where would you like to start with all of us? Maybe tell us a little bit about who you are and the work that you do with men in leadership. Yeah, so

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I was just telling this story on a different podcast the other day, and I, I think it really there's three stages to really what got me to where I am, and the first one goes all the way back a couple decades where I started working out with my dad, going to the gym, and I really just started to see an elevation of confidence and showing up differently just through physical fitness all the way back when I was like 10 or 11, and so that's been a pillar all the way up until where I'm at today. Once I got to around 2016, though, what I realized that was a few decades after all

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that. What I began to realize was the physical component of health was just one piece to the puzzle, and so there was a tragic incident in my life that happened, and it really shined a light on how important the mental and emotional piece really had been lacking and opportunity for me to grow. So that really developed my personal development journey in that sake around those two things around 2016 all the way up until till now, and I'm guessing forever as well. And so those were two components. And then around the time when I was switched my final last job in corporate sales, what I came

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to realize was by pairing up the physical health side of things, the mental health, the emotional health, spiritual health-all these different components that comprise someone as a you know whole being who can really show up and be extremely powerful. I realize that in the corporate world, you can leverage those to what I would consider getting ahead of a lot of the rest of the pack. And really, when you're able to do that, what I saw for myself in 2020 to 2022 was really to elevate the way that I showed up in the workplace, and that was the cue then for me to realize that this is no

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pun intended, but it really is a magic, a secret sauce to being able to help yourself at work, and then just of course, it by proximity it helps your relationship and it helps how you show up and the energy that you bring and all these amazing things. But what I realized in that space around the corporate setting was, personally, from what I saw, many guys were neglecting that, and as a result, they were struggling-not struggling financially, but struggling to enjoy their success. And so that was really my cue to see that hey, I've I've made some transformations, I've made some shifts in my

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life, mentally and emotionally, and really taking a deeper look at myself. And I realized that if I wanted to get into coaching beyond just the nutrition coaching that I was doing and create real transformation for guys, if we went deep into that stuff, that would allow for them to really elevate in many different areas, and that's what led me to finally quitting my job after multiple jobs, of course. But over the course of six to eight years in the corporate setting, and leaving that back in October of 2022, now to go do what I now do full time, which is coach men and entrepreneurs,

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business owners, business professionals. In that way, so those are the three areas that really, weirdly enough, they start to come full circle. But of course, it was a long, long-winded progression to bring me to exactly where I am today.

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Amy Lynn Durham: It sounds to me, if I'm coming from the multiple intelligence lens, the multiple intelligence sets in spiritual intelligence that are taught in our teachings. Physical intelligence is the core foundation in this pyramid that's almost similar to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And what's interesting is the next step up from that is IQ. The next step past that is EQ, emotional intelligence, and then the top of the pyramid is SQ, spiritual intelligence. And so when you're sharing your story, it's sounding to me like you're kind of going up the pyramid, or some might say a

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spiral, if we're into the spiral theories, and you nailed your physical intelligence, so it gave you an opportunity to access these higher intelligence sets a little easier. And you can compare that multiple intelligence sets for your day, for your life. I mean, there's all sorts of stories or ways that and examples that you can pull through with that. I'm curious about the men that you work with that may have that physical intelligence, the box checked on that. Sure, like going to the gym, like you were really successful in business, knows how to close the deals. You were in corporate sales,

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and then something doesn't feel right. The success isn't giving that feeling that they thought it was going to give them. That's where you come in. What are you experiencing with that?

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I would say that society, social media, whatever we want to point to, has definitely relayed the message that as long as you are physically fit and you're financially successful, and you have the nice car and you got a good business or you have a great job, that all of a sudden happiness will be a mainstay in your life, and what I've come to find out personally and with clients is that's not necessarily the case. And and really, if we dive deeper, and you know, this is some of the stuff talking through a lot of the stuff with Joe Dispenza, and this is this is out there in many

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different ways. Heart math, anybody can talk about nervous system regulation. A lot of what most of the guys are after is they love that addiction to that survival feeling, and so it's always the next thing. It's always the the next goal, the next revenue target, the next house, the next car. And while it is okay to desire those things, and if they're placing a lot of that worth or a lot of their identity on those things, they are what I would consider on an emotional roller coaster because those things can be pulled away at any given time, and so that's what I see is, hey, outside of all

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those things that are going to be inevitable and they happen and we have challenges in life, can you be the person to stay coherent long enough to be able to think through those situations to give you the highest likelihood to move and maneuver around them or through them in the best case possible, and I think what most guys have never been taught to do, or they have been told that it's that it's not the right way, or that something's bad about it, is to learn what it's like to balance the yin and the yang, or the push really hard, but allow to ease back, and it's all the go real hard. You

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know, I always use a car analogy. It's they're revved up at 7000 RPMs all the time, which is really cool because they get a lot of things done. But that only can last so long before they crash and burn. And I always say that the length of time that they have to be out of commission in their car in the shop, the person who just learned how to stay coherent long enough kind of waves at them as they go by, and if they would have just started there, it would have been much easier. Whereas now, so many guys are looking to rebuild from that bottomed out place, which is which can be a

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challenging place to be. I really encourage and recommend that guys learn those skills so that they can be in this game for longer. And the biggest thing is we have so much change going on right now that if you're in survival mode or you're pushing 1000 miles an hour, you're not even able to comprehend all the different changes that are going on to keep up with the people that are able to slow down, to comprehend, and to move forward. So, yeah, it's it's highly important, and I I believe that if specifically men, if they don't get behind this notion, that a lot of them will find themselves,

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of course, burnt out, but also just feeling a bit behind because they were. To a lot of times, ego gets in the way to be able to see things in a way that would actually benefit them, versus saying, "Oh, well, this is the way I've always done it, so I'm not going to switch it. Which, of course, that in itself can be a very, very dark place if if you're not willing to learn, unlearn, and then of course relearn something new.

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Amy Lynn Durham: I know we talked about before that men often come to you with business issues, and then it turns out they actually, all of a sudden, it's uncovered that they're carrying some deeper wounds, maybe some grief or some shame, and that it's coming up as anger at work. And I want to hear a little bit more about how we can heal that, because I think I don't think I know. There's a lot of men in power, and if we can somehow through the work you're doing and through self awareness and awareness of what's going on with the anger that's coming up? What are some ways in your work that

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helps heal that?

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Yeah, well, there's one in particular that comes to mind. I just want to share this. One of my mentors and coaches a while back, he I said, and I 100% believe it is. Most men's business problems are just personal problems disguised in business, and I wholeheartedly believe that because the guys that I work with, that's what they feel is the issue. And then as you start to peel back layers of the onion, you start to realize that no, this has been a pattern for a while. It's just coming up in a different circumstance. And so one of the first things that I really highly encourage,

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and I was just on a call with a client the other day, and we went all the way back to stuff that was going on in high school, and his performance anxiety to show up in his job currently is so high, and then you you really start to peel back layers of the onion to find out that he had this all the way back in high school sports when he was put on this pedestal to move from, you know, he was on the freshman team. He had one freshman practice, and he went straight to varsity. And all that pressure to feel like, hey, I needed to be a certain person. I needed to be perfect. And now he feels

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that need in every single thing that he does. The issue that a lot of them find is, well, that was my secret sauce. That's what drives me. That's what gets me to this point. If I take that away, then does that mean everything else falls apart? And to me, I I always remind them that that was a survival mechanism that helped you get to this point now. But it's not going to be the thing that gets you to the next level. And if you keep doing the same thing, expecting something new, we know what that is. They say it's insanity. So we can still keep those same character building values. If I like to

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work hard, I have a strong work ethic, and I know how to not let my anxiety get the best of me. And now they've really leveraged themselves to be the best at what they do. And so, to me, dismantling a lot of those beliefs, understanding, going back into the stories, really you can monitor a lot of this through the words that they use, and then I really like to get them to slow down to be somatically aware of, hey, where do you feel this in the body, and what is that emotion in your body? So that when you notice that the mind and the body, they know they keep lots of memories there. So

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I always ask them, hey, when you share that out loud, what was what was that emotion you were just feeling at that line that you just wrote out, and you know they may say it could be sadness, it could be frustration, it could be anxiousness. You know, I always ask them what's the what's the level of intensity? 10 being high, one being low. They'll tell me. I say, where is it localized in the body? That allows for them to get aware, and then from there, the body really has a great way of keeping memory for better or for worse. I ask him, first time you've ever felt that way, and a lot of times,

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light bulb moment. Oh, back when when my parents got divorced, or back when I was bullied in high school, or back when I lost my first company and I was down and out. Whatever it is. So then we work to go back into those stories to then emotionally process them, so they can take the wisdom from the situation, but not keep the emotional charge and be living with that, which is what a lot of times replicates how they're being shown up in business. So it's a whole process, and it takes time, and a lot of it's harder than most individuals believe. But I feel like it's the it's the best way

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through.

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Amy Lynn Durham: That's almost another form of helping someone become physically intelligent. You know, what is your body saying to you right now? The somatic piece you're talking about, right? And then it's connecting to that release, so they're not carrying that anymore. I'm curious if you're finding with the men that you work with that seem to be working through elevating. It's almost feeling like to me they're elevating on that pyramid, right? They're tapping into an awareness. Of their emotions, they're learning emotional management strategies. They're moving into the success that I've

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achieved didn't give me the satisfaction that I thought it would. So now maybe they're pondering what is my purpose in life, or maybe I want to connect to something bigger than myself and have a deeper meaning, or or something that I do that feels like it's a ripple effect. Do you think that this is happening because men are being held to a higher standard now than in the past, and I mean that in a good way. It's not just good enough that you can run a successful business, have a nice car, and then come home and not be emotionally available for your relationship or your family. Or

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let's take that even a step further, it's not good enough for the people around you in the corporate space for you to be successful, hit all these goals when you're not exactly an emotionally intelligent leader to work for. Thoughts on that?

Pat Smith: 00:16:21

I would just say that you know the paradigm has shifted dramatically, whether it's at home with yourself or at work, from an idea of positional leadership to relational leadership, and I think we see that in a lot of different areas. Just because I'm successful at work, I'm physically fit, and I make all the money. That doesn't really get a great response versus the person that can have those things and be able to have tough conversations and be able to sit with their partner or sit with their team in specific areas. Because at some point, what I often realize, and we'll just

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take it from the business context, is if it's a positional leader, then they're always barking orders. It's always, hey, do this for me, and I'm above everyone else, and automatically it creates disconnection. It creates lack of trust, and so I think the same thing goes when we're thinking about the household, but also for ourselves. And so the moment that they're only tied into all of the things, the success, the growth, the physical fitness, whatever it might be, they aren't giving themselves access to this other part of them that is their true potential. And so, if we think about

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guys who, the real way I feel, and we think about teams nowadays, being a relational leader who can go in and get to know their employees, understand what's going on the ground floor, so that they can make the bigger decisions. Those are the companies, and those are the businesses, and those are the type of leaders that people actually want to work for. And in that mode, guys are really being faced to change in a way of, hey, do I want to always stay in this positional style of leadership, or do I want to move into a relational style of leadership that one not only makes more money because we're

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more efficient and our team is more cohesive, but it also feels better to me. And I think that's the key. Guys are realizing that this shift from positional to relational leadership not only can it be more effective, which if you're after all about success, that's great, but it also can feel better. And imagine that same level of success that they've already been at, or more business relationship with their family, with themselves. But it can be even greater, and it can feel better. Now that's what a lot of times will. Okay, that sparks the curiosity for them to get get a little bit more

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serious about it. Nowadays, you start to see more and more people on podcasts sharing a lot more on. Hey, we can be all successful in a lot of these ways, but that level of success is determined on our level of personal growth. And if you're not willing to go there, then you're also limiting your own success. And so, I think that is the paradigm shift that people are starting to realize that it's not the external success that makes you feel good; it's you feeling good internally that actually elevates your ability to show up better in all of those areas externally, and and that's where

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the real transformation, in my opinion, becomes.

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Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, really good point. There's a couple of things that come to mind as you share that one is the operating from your ego versus your higher self. There's data out there showing that when we operate from our higher self, that place within us that comes from wisdom, compassion, and love, by default, the people around you will start operating from that place, a larger percentage of time over operating from ego, and there's also Ian Marshall in the Quantum Leader has a it's called the scale of motivations, and he shows when you're operating. From these places where you feel good

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inside, how it brings about this culture by default of generativity of certain things that ripple out into our communities for the greater good. I'm wondering if you could share a couple of tips for somebody listening that wants to be more relational in their leadership, what are some things that you share? Because I'm, I'm assuming, and maybe I shouldn't assume. I'm assuming this, this is something that your clients need to skill build in if they're coming from leading from this positional hierarchical way, and then they want to be more relational. What are one or two things that you

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do, or a micro step you could offer for all of us to be more relational?

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Oh, I think I would say first and foremost, from a lot of leaders that I talk to, is just get to know the people around you. They're humans, just like you. Get to know them. That alone can start to build a level of relationship. So that when, if you are their boss and they're your subordinate, for lack of better words, when you go to ask them, "Hey, I need your help assisting with this. Do you mind? It's not as if I'm coming at you from this hierarchy. It's, "Hey, we're in this thing together. So first and foremost, just get to know your people. And secondly, I would say be willing

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to say the things that need to be said, but doing it in a way where you can allow for it to be psychologically safe. So, for instance, of course, if you have feedback for a certain individual, but you're too worried to tell them because you might hurt their feelings. You're actually doing them a bigger disservice by not telling them. But instead of going in and just blasting, "Hey, you're doing X, Y, and Z wrong. You need to fix it, which can backfire quite a bit. Just start asking those very easy, psychologically safe questions. Hey, I have something I'd like to share with you. Is now a

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good time? In doing so, the guard drops. First, I need you to come to my office, and so I would say it's more so just those subtle things that allow for you two to drop down, be coherent with each other, where the conversation can actually be fluid, versus me coming at you from this this emotionally heightened state, which automatically triggers that other person, and the conversations often aren't very productive in that manner. So I would say just one, getting to know people on a human level in your office or in your team, or even strangers around at your gym or wherever you go, and two

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is if and when you need to share something with them, don't be afraid to share it with them, but do it in a way that is, you know, has a little bit of empathy in there, so that you can make it more of a conducive conversation in a not me telling you, but hey, let's work on this together. That we word or together or our mission, I feel also brings in a lot of a lot of growth in that way. If individuals can actually say, "Hey, we're in this together, that really drops down the guard from one person to the next. And with a leader, sometimes that's all it takes. I have a client that I work

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with. They have a healthcare company out of Miami, and I just mentioned to him. I say, "Hey, before you go in, he loves to get things done. He's a great COO, but he's very. We need to do this, this, this. So just take the first five minutes. Hey, so and so, how was your weekend? Cool. Yeah, this is what I did. How's your kids? Oh yeah, you said your kid's birthday was okay. Now let's talk some business. That alone, it drastically changed the relationship for a lot of his direct reports, you would think it would be something so simple, and it would be you would just make sense. But if we

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weren't taught that way, and we're focused on the revenue, that those things go out the window. But to me, those are the things that actually drive the revenue faster because people are more bought in, the culture becomes better, and ideas start flowing. So yeah, those would be a couple things. Get to know the people. Ask those psychologically safe questions to ensure that when you share feedback, because feedback is needed, don't hold it back. That it can be received well, and also don't be willing to get feedback on your own.

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Amy Lynn Durham: Get to know your people. Ask the psychologically safe questions. There's a piece in there where authenticity needs to come into play, I've seen situations where leaders in organizations will go around and ask their employee canned questions, and it feels very performative that they're trying to get to know their team. You know, tell me your why, Pat. What's your why here? And then the the other person's kind of like, "What? I'm just trying to like work today. Like, what are you talking about? So I think there's a level of authenticity that needs to occur in the

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getting to know your team, and that actually takes a lot of skill building. From the leader to be able to take their mask off and show up human to human and get to know somebody in a casual way that's authentic. So I just wanted to add to that.

Pat Smith: 00:25:17

That's important for sure. And then getting the ego out of the way to realize that hey, it's okay that I'm also human, and just because I'm their boss doesn't mean that I have to be perfect because no one is. And so that's another whole dismantling story that we could have a whole second episode on that alone on how do you dismantle that story to realize that it's okay for you not to have it all together, even though you're someone else's boss and you feel like you need to. I think that's another struggle for many men is to feel like they have to have that performative mask on to

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feel like I have it all together because I'm someone else's boss or I'm a business owner. But the more they have to wear that mask, the more draining it is for them, and their team doesn't get the best of them, their significant others, their families themselves, because they're always trying to keep up with that, and that's draining place to be. And I know that far too well for myself, and even with clients.

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Amy Lynn Durham: Speaking of dismantling, there can be a lot of blame and shame surrounding the concept of toxic or hypermasculinity right now. How do you feel we can create safe, confidential spaces for men to dismantle these behaviors without making them feel defensive or villainized?

Pat Smith: 00:26:37

I'll give an example just for me alone. I created an online platform on school where there's almost 800 men, and it's one of the things that we focus on primarily. Is we have a weekly call. It's a connection call. It's just to share what's going on, share your challenges, share your struggles. I would say that the more guys are able to share them, they realize that many men are dealing with lots of the same things. They might just look in a little different way, and so I think the more it becomes normalized, and the more you initiate those conversations with your friends of "Hey,

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how's it going, man? Oh, it's good, but how's it really going? That alone can be transformative, and get to realize like it's okay to have those conversations. The challenge then becomes that I feel that the notion and the story that a lot of guys have is that if I'm sad or if I show emotion, that could be a sign of weakness. But the truth is, if you're not able to access any of your emotions, you're actually at a disadvantage than most people in the world. But the moment that you can access them, understand them, and then be the person that can maneuver through them. That actually is

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really what I would consider true strength, and there's a lot of resilience in that. And so I think it's having to switch the mentality that these things are bad to hey, these things are actually essential, and I can become a better man as a result of it. And if and when that table starts to shift, to me that's where I feel there's a lot of there's a lot of opportunity for many guys. And so I would say, you know, find out where are those places. I live here in Charlotte. There's a lot of stuff going on in the city, but I can name three or four off top of my head of men's groups where

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individuals go there, and yeah, the guys talk about many different things, but the truth of the matter is, by them talking about them is saving them. I think oftentimes in their relationships, oftentimes in their business, because the moment that they don't speak those out loud or create some commonality to have these discussions, then where else does it all go? In here, and then it bottles up and bottles up, and they get all tense, and then they wonder why they're not excited about work or they're snapping at their significant other. The truth is, we need to let this stuff out. It's not

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meant to be stored in. So to me, it's just about normalizing it in that sense. And I think the more times we get to be on amazing podcasts like this, where we can share that message, and it just strikes one person or one man who may share with one of his friends, and so on and so forth, it can become a ripple effect into a lot of the different areas that many men have opportunity to still grow in.

Pat Smith: 00:29:11

Amy Lynn Durham: I think that's so cool that you have that group of 800 men and growing. Hopefully, that's amazing. As a coach, how do you stop that projection mirror? As a coach, if somebody's getting uncomfortable, they're taking a look at accountability and ownership of where they are. Is there any moments that you see where there's projection going on that you need to pull the person back to taking a look in the mirror?

Pat Smith: 00:29:40

Yeah, I would say anytime we're on those calls, I get to what I like to say, call them forward in a way, and I always tend to ask, "Hey, do you mind if I challenge you real quick on that? I can't remember many times where they said, "No, don't, don't challenge me. I think a lot of guys like to be like, "Okay, what? They say, "Yeah, okay, challenge." You often said that so and so makes you feel that way. So I'll do a little exercise. I always play a little game with them. I said, write that down. She makes me feel that way. Okay, so who's in control in your life in that moment?

Pat Smith: 00:30:14

Well, she is. Is that how you want to live? No. So you cross out the she. I make me feel that way. They get a little frustrated at times when you play this little game with them, but then they realize is I'm the one who's in control. I have the ability to either react or to stay cool to then respond in a better way. And so I like to pick up the low hanging fruit, which is just the words that we say or the things. It's even easier in email or text because you literally have them written out. Wow, she made me do this. Or work is really pissing me off, and work didn't do that. You allowed it to get

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you upset. So I always just almost like reframe it in that way by allowing for them to move their language patterns from that projection language to more of that ownership, and as a result, you start to see a little bit of a light bulb moment flash. Like, oh, you're you're right. I do have that ability to handle how I think and feel on a moment to moment basis. But I've been conditioned for so long just to allow for all of these things to do to dictate me. And I always use the analogy. Oftentimes, many men, when they are projecting all the time, they are giving up the reins just like a

Pat Smith: 00:31:22

puppet for their life to play them like a puppet. Oh, so and so does this now. I'm angry. So and so this where happens at work. Now I'm stressed. Or this happens now. I'm anxious. First, let's take those reins back to yourself, and that can just simply be by by our language patterns alone. Because the more I speak that, as I can use the word abracadabra. It means with my words I create in some of the ancient languages. The more I say, "Well, she makes me feel that way, you're starting to believe that more, and now you give all that power away. Versus, I get to choose this, and in doing so,

Pat Smith: 00:31:54

it actually gives your body some permission to take some ownership back. So that's how I like to phrase it in a way that's really simple for a lot of the guys to understand in a way, versus trying to make it so philosophical and very super science based. I just say change out a couple words. You use words all day long. You speak them. You think them. You email them. You text them. You tweet them. Just change out some of those words, and you can start to see how ownership starts to change. And if you're unsure if which side you're on, whether you project or whether you're in ownership, just

Pat Smith: 00:32:25

look a lot of your texts that you send in the group text or in your emails, and that'll be a telltale sign of where you're at.

Pat Smith: 00:32:33

Amy Lynn Durham: So good, so good. Okay, so Stanford psychologist Dr. Philip Zimbardo delivered a famous TED Talk titled "The Demise of Guys, which he later expanded into a book called "The Demise of Guys: Why Boys Are Struggling and What We Can Do About It. Doctor Zimbardo argued that an entire generation of young men is culturally, socially, and academically faltering due to activity addiction, driven by two things: excessive internet, pornography, and intensive video gaming. His research explicitly contrasted the divergent paths single men and women take under modern social pressures. The

Pat Smith: 00:33:13

male retreat. The data showed that young men were increasingly withdrawing from the real world into a fail-safe digital environment. The fail-safe cycle in the real world, dating, school, and careers come with a high risk of rejection and failure. In contrast, video games offer adrenaline without danger, and porn offers orgasm without intimacy. Rewiring the brain, the data indicated that these digital stimuli act as arousal addictions that alter the brain's reward centers. Young men become digitally rewired to prefer a world they can completely control. Because these men struggle to

Pat Smith: 00:33:53

navigate real-world social cues, they face severe social awkwardness and isolation. And when real life fails them, a defense mechanism triggers. Instead of looking inward, they externalize their frustration, blaming society, shifting cultural norms, or women for their alienation. While young men have historically struggled to adapt to the changing collaborative structure of modern schools and workplaces, women are being proactive, socializing. They're pursuing new skills. They're learning new careers. They're quote unquote making happen rather than retreating into solo digital isolation. I

Pat Smith: 00:34:39

bring that data up in this conversation because it highlights a cultural divide. It highlights a portion of men that are coping with real-world anxiety and escaping into dopamine loops, while women are by. Contrast according to this data piece, building tangible, real-world credentials and independence. I bring all that up to say, the work that you're doing is to be highlighted, and that's why I have you on the show because you are creating spaces where men can go and stop that projection mirror, and so then they isolate themselves into a world where they won't get that and just get the

Pat Smith: 00:35:29

dopamine hits. Like that's a problem, right? And so you're creating this space saying, "Hey, this is real. This is real messy human to human. And oh, by the way, stop blaming other people for what's going on with you. And here are some frameworks to rewrite this narrative, to rewrite this story in your head. And I thought it was important to talk about it on Create Magic at Work because rather than putting blame and shame on the hypermasculine spaces. I want to hear stories from you about how you're you're creating these safe, confidential spaces to help dismantle these behaviors for the

Pat Smith: 00:36:11

greater good of all. I have to be real, though. A part of me reading that is like, oh, great. Your biggest fear is fear of rejection and failure. Well, sometimes mine is walking to my car in the middle of the night with my keys out, so I'm afraid I'm going to get attacked. Right when I read all those things, so there's a lot of different. There's a lot of feelings coming up for me with this, but I think the overall loving, spiritually intelligent answer is, you are being courageous in creating these spaces.

Pat Smith: 00:36:40

Oh, thank you for that. Feel free to comment on all. Well, oh, first and foremost, the one thing I always think about in visuals, and you think about normal life. If you're just at least what I think of in in my lifetime, normal life is you're going to have rejection, and most likely you maybe asked a few people out, maybe you got rejected or you got dumped, and like that's normal. This is the trajectory that most people go on, and they experience rejection. Maybe didn't get into the college that they want, or you know, maybe they didn't get the great job that they first applied

Pat Smith: 00:37:10

to or internship. Okay, normal things. But the deviation here is this is normal, and as people start to not do those things, there's a separation in that gap, makes it that much harder for men to get back in the game, if you will. And so, even for young men, the longer they prolong that isolation, that being solo, that basically putting all of their eggs in something external, that disconnect makes it harder and harder and harder and harder year over year to dismantle those stories, so the sooner we can get to this point of just getting them used to that and realizing that's easier to me,

Pat Smith: 00:37:46

that's where really some real transformation can happen for a lot of young men, and it's up to the guys who are potentially you know a little bit older than them to just shake them and show them, hey, this is this is the normal trajectory that you can go on, and the more you do this, the more isolating you become, and the longer it is before you actually make any true progress. Which, if you're wanting control of everything, that's just not realistic. And so, I think it also is getting young men and men in general okay with living in uncertainty, with living in the gray area, not just the

Pat Smith: 00:38:20

black, not just the white, but the only way that could ever happen is if I wanting to control every single thing, as well as me wanting to live in certainty. Imagine if I have to control every single thing in my life. Stress levels are out through the roof, so that's where it becomes teaching a lot of guys of, hey, can we drop into coherence? Because in coherence, we can deal with the uncertainty because we can make decisions even when things aren't 100% black or white. Those spaces have to exist for guys to be able to open up to share those challenges. And I think more guys who are willing to

Pat Smith: 00:38:57

share that things are challenging and you do get to reject it, but that's also where you grow from. Can give a little bit of inspiration to the younger generation to know that hey, you know they might not have grown up in the same time, the same level of technology, AI, whatever the case is, but they do have some wisdom in what they're saying. And enough voices get out there. To me, there's availability for a lot of young men to change in a way that would be really helpful. I think for not only like as you shared, for hopefully for many of the women out there, but also just the workforce

Pat Smith: 00:39:29

and our society in general.

Pat Smith: 00:39:31

Amy Lynn Durham: Yeah, really cool. Thanks for talking about this with us today. I'm going to pull a card from the Edgewalker card deck for us because I just feel like this is in that realm of conversation as creating safe, confidential spaces for men and removing the blame and shame surrounding hypermasculinity. I think that's going to help heal things for a lot of us that have worked in these spaces. So let's let's see what the Edgewalker card deck has for us today. Ooh, okay, we got focus. Interesting. The definition of focus in the Edgewalker framework is the ability to be very

Pat Smith: 00:40:15

centered and to give all your attention to an action or project that has significance and importance. Well, Pat, I feel like you're doing that with your work for sure. And oh, this is great because this is kind of an old school idea that some people still kick around. And I'm like, oh my gosh, no, that was debunked a while ago. So the affirmation on the on the focus card is, I avoid multitasking because it gets in the way of focusing on what's important to me. I avoid multitasking because it gets in the way of focusing on what's important to me. And we know now that scientists actually call

Pat Smith: 00:40:56

multitasking task switching, and we never fully get anything done in a quality way when we're multitasking. It used to be a question a couple decades ago on when I was interviewing employees for jobs. That was actually an interview question. You know, tell me about a time you multitasked, and are you good at multitasking? So it was something that was perpetuated in the corporate space as being a good thing to have, and they've noticed in brain studies it's not. It's task switching, and nothing's really getting done. So, cool message to end the conversation today. Again, I avoid multitasking

Pat Smith: 00:41:38

because it gets in the way of focusing on what's important to me, and let's all take this idea of being centered and giving all our attention to an action or project that has significance or importance. Pat, if people want to learn more about the groups that you're creating and you're coaching for men, if there are men listening right now, they're like, "Wow, I'd love to be part of that group. I'd love to skill build in my relational intelligence and emotional intelligence. How can they connect with you?

Pat Smith: 00:42:10

So I primarily post most of my stuff via Instagram and LinkedIn. So I promote a lot of the the big group that I'm talking about, which is called the Standard. That group is promoted on my Instagram and on my LinkedIn, so feel free to connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn, and then also share the the link for that group. It's free to join currently. That may change here in the future, but it's free to join right now, and so I'll be able to share that link with you as well to put in the show notes.

Pat Smith: 00:42:34

Amy Lynn Durham: Cool. Thanks for creating communities like these where we dismantle these behaviors in a safe and blameless and shameless way. And thanks for being a guest today on Crete Magic at Work.

Pat Smith: 00:42:46

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Appreciate it so much.